CARLIER X PLANTE (ou THOMSON), Dunkerque Options

[bhowell]

Hello,

I have been searching for a few months now and I desperately need some help. I told my aunt I would find out who her great, great grandparents were and I just keep coming up with dead ends. As she is nearing 102 in June, I want to get this info for her as soon as I can.

The info I do have (from a family member) is this:

Henry Emile Carlier (1817-1875) Born in Belgium and buried in Dunkirk, France.
He married Louise Renee Plante (1821-1878) in 1838 in Belgium. She too born in Belgium and buried in Dunkirk, Fr. They had three children:

1) George Emile Carlier - (1839-1852) died when he was 13.
2) Dr. Arthur Emile Carlier (1841-1880) studied at University of Paris and became a surgeon. Came to US in late 1860's. He married Ida Mae (Close) Carlier and lived in Ohio. He traveled around northern Ohio into Pennsylvania practicing medicine. It was said that he would work at a cheese factory from time to time when he was low on funds and used that for medical supplies. He was called to Toledo, OH for at a consultation when he had a stroke and died. He was buried in Toledo.
3) Emily Louise Carlier - (1843-1874) no other info for her.

Arthur had three children, George Emile, Sr. was one of them and he was my grandfather. His son was George Emile Carlier, Jr., my dad.

The biggest problem is that I don't know what region in Belgium they were from and I don't know where to begin looking. Any suggestions regarding where I might go for information, would be greatly appreciated. Since I am on a very limited income, I cannot pay to join the various websites. Other spellings might be Carlior, Charlier, Carler,

Thank you so much for any suggestions,
BHowell

Ce message a été modifié par dlarchet - 05/05/2012 à 23:24.

Raison de l'édition : rectification du titre compte tenu des apports ultérieurs

[svangrootenbruel...]

bonjour Bhowell,

ce n'est pas PLANTE mais THOMPSON (je ne sais pas où vous avez trouvé PLANTE)
votre recherche est sur Dunkerque (et pas Lille)

sinon, je pense que c'est cette famille dont il est question:

µfilm 5 Mi 27 r 076 - 903/1242
° 19/06/1846 Dunkerque de CARLIER Emilie Louise fille de Henri Louis CARLIER négociant, 46ans, ° Dunkerque et de Louis Catherine THOMPSON, 37ans, ° Londres.

µfilm 5 mi 27 r 036 - 308/1084
° 15/05/1840 de Henri Emile Arthur CARLIER de Henri Louis, négociant, ° Dunkerque et de Louise Catherine THOMPSON

le mariage CARLIER X THOMPSON a eu lieu à Chelsea , mais par chance retranscrit sur les registres de Dunkerque dans le µfilm 5 mi 27 r 051 - 402/1134

µfilm 5 mi 27 r 096 - 913/983 acte de décès de CARLIER henri emile (retranscription car il est mort à Anvers en Belgique)

je suis désolé, mais je ne parle pas américain, il faudrait que quelqu'un puisse traduire.

Stéphane

Ce message a été modifié par svangrootenbruelle - 05/05/2012 à 15:13.

[svangrootenbruel...]

j'ajoute


mariage paroisse Haut Chelsea comté Middlesex le 3 août 1839
retranscrit le 24/10/1839 à Dunkerque

CARLIER Henri Emile, célibataire, de Dunkerque, gentilhomme, de Louis Joseph CARLIER
THOMPSON Louise Catherine, célibataire, de Nohasplacechelseand, fille de William George THOMPSON

Mort de henri Emile CARLIER 75ans, né à Dunkerque, mort le 01/09/1875 à Anvers, époux de Louise Catherine THOMPSON, fils de feu Louis CARLIER et de feue Marie FOCKEDEY.
Déclaration par Everitt WHITEMORE négociant 35 ans beau fils.


µfilm 5 mi 27 r 046 - 202/920

mariage 2 janvier 1792 à DUNKERQUE

Louis Joseph CARLIER 27 ans né à Bergues St Winoc paroisse St Pierre fils de Jean Baptiste Louis CARLIER et de Marie Jacqueline Elène LEFERE
Marie Jeanne Elisabeth FOCKEDEY 23 ans fille de François Louis FOCKEDEY et de Marie GODEFROY.


Ce message a été modifié par svangrootenbruelle - 05/05/2012 à 15:30.

[† adecalonne]

Bonjour B...... , bonjour à tous,

Petit complément :

Jean Baptiste Louis CARLIER ° 1740 + 1788
X 29/02/1764 Bergues Saint Pierre
Marie Jacqueline Guilaine LEFEBVRE ° 1729 + 1790.

Henri Emile CARLIER avait un frère :
- Jean Joseph ° 19/04/1794 Dunkerque Nord, + en 1874 à Paris 75 Ile de France, Agent de change comme son père et courtier maritime
X 04/12/1844 avec Clémentine PERRIER ° 1802 Dunkerque, + en 1880 à Paris. dont :

Louis joseph CARLIER ° 20/03/1846 Paris, + en 1921 à Paris,
X 1872 Marguerite ARNAUDTIZON ° 1862 Le Havre Seine Maritime Normandie, + en 1908 Paris dont 4 enfants :
- Madeleine °1872 + 1958 X Charles COLLOT
- Ludovic + 1873
- Pierre Léon ° 1877 +28/09/1923? Consul général de France à Usbuk (Turquie) x Germaine BAROIS ° 1886 + 1981 dont 3 enfants
- Marianne ° 05/03/1882 Domont 95 Val d'OISE, + 06/09/1977 Lesneven 29 Finistère Bretagne, X 12/03/1903 Edmond Jules Hippolyte ALLAIN-LAUNAY ° 18/12/1878 Paris, + 17/04/1924 Domont, Ingénieur en chef à la Cie du gaz et d'électricité dont 2 enfants.......

Cordialement.

[bhowell]

Thank you so much for helping me. Once you get information, you have to verify to make sure. Your help to me and everyone you've helped is monumental. Thank you!

[bhowell]

Thank you so much for helping me. This info is amazing.

[bhowell]

Can anyone further explain the events and dates in this post? Thank you.

[cdubrulle]

Can anyone further explain the events and dates in this post? Thank you.

Hi Bhowell ( why don't you give us your first name?)
My name is Christiane, I was born in Lille, France, and I have been living in the US for 45 years. I am going to try to help you in english.

I will start here with the content of message # 2 of this thread:
I checked the death tables in Dunkerque and found Henri Emile CARLIER on September 7, 1877, spouse of THOMPSON.
By searching for the record itself in microfilm 5 mi 27 r 096 - p.913/983 at that date, I found an interesting transcription that shows that even though he was born in Dunkerque and lived there, he died in Anvers September 1, 1875. Yes, it took 2 years for the death record to be translated , transmitted, and recorded in Dunkerque, because it went through different administrations for signature.

According to the testimony of his son-in-law Charles Everett WHITEMORE, his wife was Louise Catherine THOMPSON and he was the son of Louis CARLIER deceased, and Marie FOCKEDEY deceased,
I am going to post that record in the "Galerie" of this forum and you can click on the link below to see it and save the image if you wish.
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php...i&img=30287
I will translate it later for you.

Stephane found the birth dates of two of the children in Dunkerque
15 May 1840 birth of Henri Emile Arthur CARLIER, son of Henri Louis CARLIER, négociant, and Louise Catherine THOMPSON ( microfilm 5 mi 27 r 036 - p.308/1084)

19 June 1846 birth of Emilie Louise CARLIER, daughter of Henri Louis CARLIER négociant, 46 years old, born in Dunkerque and of Louise Catherine THOMPSON, 37years old, born in London. ( microfilm 5 Mi 27 r 076 - p.903/12420)

I found the birth of the third one in Dunkerque
15 April 1843 birth of William Emile George CARLIER son of Henri Emile CARLIER, 42 years old, born in Dunkerque, and Louise Catherine THOMPSON, 34 years old, born in London ( microfilm 5 Mi 27 R 036 p. 931/1084)
Witnesses:
Louis Joseph CARLIER, 79 years old, grandfather of the child
Charles Louis CARLIER, 56 years old, uncle of the child.

That will be all for the moment, I will translate message # 3 in another post later
Christiane

P.S. As you will notice, on this forum we use all capital letters for the last names.
The microfilm references # are those of the Departmental Archives located in Lille and online at
http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/

[bhowell]

Christiane, I can't thank you enough! This is so helpful. My first name is Bonnie.

[cdubrulle]

Christiane, I can't thank you enough! This is so helpful. My first name is Bonnie.

Hi Bonnie,
Here is the translation of the death record of Henri Emile CARLIER found in the Dunkerque register. It is a transcription of the record received from Antwerp, Holland, where he died. The first two paragraphs are the essential part of the record. The rest is legalese and my translation of the legal terms might be slightly off but you will get the idea…

Death record of Henri Emile CARLIER (transcription)
In 1877, 7 of September at 3:00 p.m., we, Frédéric Charles d’Arras, mayor and public officer of Civil Records of the town of Dunkerque, department of Nord, in accordance with art. 4 of the Civil Code, make the following transcription:
Kingdom of Belgium, Antwerp province, City Administration of Antwerp. Translation:
On September 2, in the year of 1875, at 3:00 pm. Record of death of Henri Emile CARLIER, no occupation, 75 years old, born in Dunkerque, department of Nord in France, domiciled there, died here on September 1 of this year at 10 p.m., spouse of Louise Catherine THOMPSON, son of deceased Louis CARLIER and deceased Marie FOCKEDEY, according to a testimony made to me by Charle Everett WHITEMORE, wholesale merchant, 35 years old, son-in-law of the deceased, and by Jean Louis (STEVENS ?), employee, 39 years old, who knew the deceased, both domiciled here. So made in double copies here, at City Hall by me, Official of the City of Antwerp, officer of Civil Records, and this after having checked the said death, and after the reading of the present document the witnesses have signed with me. Was signed C.E. WHITEMORE and L . STEVENS and A. VAN DEN NEST.
For authenticated copy, as executed in accordance with art. 80 of the Civil Code. Anvers, October 5, 1875. The Officer of Civil Records, signed VAN DEN NEST and sealed.
Reviewed by the tribunal of Antwerp for authentication of the signature of Mr. VAN DEN NEST, Antwerp October 6, 1875. Signed VAN CATEAU and sealed.
Reviewed by the Justice Department for authentication of the signature of Mr. VAN CATEAU. Brussels, February 12, 1876. The General Secretary. Signed PUTZEYS and sealed.
Reviewed for the authentication of the signature of Mr. PUTZEYS. Brussels, March 1, 1876
For the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Director, signed E. BANNING and sealed
Reviewed for the authentication of the signature of Mr. BANNING. Brussels, March 23, 1876
For the General Consul, substituted by the Chancellor. Signed Eugene CHAPAY and sealed. Paris, March 7, 1877
Reviewed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. For the Vice-director chief of the chancellery. Signed DUBOIS and sealed
For copy authenticated at day, month, and year above

That's it.

Now, I went of the Dunkerque Archives website and I found the transcription of his marriage record in 1839 in Chelsea England. It was translated from English to French and written in the Dunkerque's records and I made a scan, but I have to read it and translate it, so it will be in the next post.
Write to you soon...
Christiane

P.S. When you answer a post, to avoid repeating a long text you can delete part of that message and keep only what is essential. In doing so, be careful to keep the "quote" word between brackets at the beginning of what your are keeping and the "/quote" word between brackets at the end. I know, it is not easy.

[bhowell]

This is so wonderful! Thank you so much!

[cdubrulle]

Hi Bonnie, it's me again.
Here is a link to the scan of the marriage transcription CARLIER x THOMPSON, in the Dunkerque records and below is my translation. The record was in 2 parts, one at the bottom of a page, the rest at the top of the following page, so I “stitched” the 2 scans together to make a single record.
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php...i&img=30289

Marriage of Henri Emile CARLIER and Louise Catherine THOMPSON ( my translation )
In the year 1839, on October 24th, 2:00 p.m. before us, François Benjamin Joseph DELATTRE, mayor pro-tem ( vice mayor?) to act for civil records of the town of Dunkerque, we have, as required by Article 72 of the Civil Code, done the following transcription:
Translation.
1839 - Marriage celebrated in the parish church of Upper-Chelsea, Middlesex County
The table shows
Date of marriage: August 2, 1839
Family names and first names: Henri Emile CARLIER and Louise Catherine THOMPSON
Age: "Major" (age not specified but they are not minors)
Status: both singles.
Rank or occupation: gentleman
Residence at time of marriage: Dunkerque for him and (rohansplace?), Chelsea for her
Name and first name of fathers: Louis Joseph CARLIER and William George THOMPSON
Rank or occupation of the fathers: Gentleman and the other is deceased
Married in the parish church, according to rites and ceremonies of the established church with dispensation from me, W. NIVEN.
The marriage has been celebrated between Henri Emile CARLIER and Louise Catherine THOMPSON
In the presence of ( signatures) BARSLER, CARLIER, THOMPSON, GOODEVE, PLUMMER, THOMPSON
-----------------------------------------------
What precedes is a true copy, taken from the marriage register of the Upper Chelsea parish, county of Middlesex. The 3rd day of August 1839, by me . Signed Henri VAUGHAN, clercq of the church of the Trinity.
Translated by the undersigned, certified translator of the English language, from an original document that I signed and gave back.
In Dunkerque, August 29, 1839. Signed DEBAERT
Seen at the French Consulate for authentication of the signature of Mr. Henri VAUGHAN, officer at the Trinity church in the parish of ------Chelsea in the County of Middlesex,
London, October 15, 1839, signed DURAND and Mr. General Consul, signed Gautier ----?
Copy conforming to the original
Signature.
End of my translaton
Since you know now the place in England, you might be able to find the original record in english and more information about Louise Catherine THOMPSON and her father William George THOMPSON.

Christiane

[cdubrulle]

Bonjour Danielle,
J’ai posté par erreur 2 fois la même image du décès de Henri Emile CARLIER avec 2 dates différentes.
L’une est marquée 1675 et c’est celle qui est en erreur. Pourriez-vous s’il vous plait l’enlever de la Galerie ?
La bonne date est 1875!
Merci d’avance.
Christiane

[bhowell]

Thank you so much Christiane. I will never forget your kindness. I sent a letter to my aunt today to tell her. I'm so glad I could finally let her know who her great great grandparents were. ... she will be 102 in June. Again, thank you so much! You are truly a blessing.
Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

Hi Bonnie,
I am glad I can help you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and I have some more information for you
We know from the death record in 1875 that Henri Emile CARLIER is the son of Louis Joseph CARLIER and Marie FOCKEDEY

Here is the translation of the information posted in message #3 by Stephane about the marriage CARLIER x FOCKEDEY
January 2, 1792 marriage in Dunkerque of
Louis Joseph CARLIER, 27 years old, born in Bergues St Winoc, St Peter's parish, son of Jean Baptiste Louis CARLIER and Marie Jacqueline Elene LEFERE
x with
Marie Jeanne Elisabeth FOCKEDEY, 23 years old, daughter of François Louis FOCKEDEY and Marie GODEFROY
I found the record in microfilm 5 Mi 27R 046 [M 1791-1794] page 200,
and I can add the names of the witnesses to the marriage:
Jean Baptiste CARLIER, merchant brewer, a cousin of the groom
Pierre LEFERE, Cousin of the groom
Francois Louis FOCKEDEY, merchant brewer, father of the bride
Francois Louis FOCKEDEY, brother of the bride

I noticed in the next record that the sister of Marie Jeanne Elisabeth FOCKEDEY, whose name is Thérèse Cécile HOCKEDEY got married the same day ( January 2, 1792) with Pierre Francois LEFEBVRE.

With the age of Henri Emile CARLIER at the birth of this children I figured roughly his birth year around 1800 and looked for his birth in Dunkerque records.

Dunkerque, microfilm 5 Mi 27 R 027 page 998 we have record # 327
Year 8 of the French Republic, 5 Nivose ( 26 December 1799)
Record of the birth of Henri Emile CARLIER, born the day before yesterday ( the 24th) son of Louis Joseph CARLIER, native of Bergues, St Martin parish, and Marie Jeanne Elizabeht FOCKEDEY
Witnesses Louis Joseph ROUZE, 27 years old, wholesale merchnant, and Thérèse Lucie VANHANDT 23 years old, wife of Jean François FOCKEDEY, brewer, uncle and aunt per marriage of the newborn and living in this town.
Signed FOCKEDEY, CARLIER, VANHANDT, ROUZE, (and the name of the clercq unreadable)

Now for the cherry on top!
In microfilm 5 Mi 27 R 020 [B 1762-1770] page 895, we have record # 983
December 26, 1768
Baptism of Marie Jeanne Elizabeth FOCKEDEY born the 25th
daughter of François Louis FOCKEDEY, native of Dunkerque
and Marie GODEFROY also of Dunkerque
Godfather: Jean Baptiste GODEFROY
Godmother: Elizabeth PERDU, widow of Pierre FOCKEDEY

I know it's a lot of stuff to digest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) and if you have any questions about these records or about these ancestors, please don't hesitate to ask. This forum is there to help.
Good night
Christiane

[bhowell]

Anvers, Antwerp, Antwerpen - are these all the same place?

[cfacon]

Hi Bonnie,

Definitively yes. Anvers for French people, Antwerp for British and Antwerpen for Dutch or Flemish. Antwerp is the capital of Antwerp Province of Flanders in Belgium.

Christian

Ce message a été modifié par cfacon - 08/05/2012 à 16:28.

[cdubrulle]

Definitively yes. Anvers for French people, Antwerp for British and Antwerpen for Dutch or Flemish. Antwerp is the capital of Antwerp Province of Flanders in Belgium.

Hi Bonnie,
As Christian said, Anvers and Antwerp are the same and are located in the Flandre province of Belgium I used the term Antwerp in my translation because I was writing in english.

Here is another supplement for you and your aunt
In microfilm 5 Mi 25 R 010 Bergues (St Pierre parish) [B 1759-1780] page 138/1059

19 December 1764
Baptism of Louis Joseph CARLIER
son of Jean Baptiste Louis CARLIER, native of Dunkerque ( Dunkirk in english)
and Marie Jacqueline Helene LEFERE, native of Crochte ( it is near Bergues)
Godfather: François LEROY
Godmother: Jeanne Angélique OUTTERS
Here is the link to the image in the Galerie
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php...i&img=30301

Bergues is about 8 miles from Dunkerque
Crochte is about 2 miles from Bergues.

Because the images of records are online on the Departmental Archives of Nord website, we are not supposed to post them in the Galerie any longer to avoid loading the Forum website. I made an exception because you do not read french and are not familiar with the French Archives website. I hope the administrator of the forum won't mind.
This morning I have been unable to load the record above. I will later when I can

Here is a link to the birth record of Henri Emile CARLIER in 1799 that I could not load earlier ( see the transcription in an earlier message)
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php...i&img=30302

My best wishes to your aunt. Have a good good day
Christiane

Ce message a été modifié par cdubrulle - 09/05/2012 à 02:23.

[bhowell]

Thank you again Christiane! Great info!

[bhowell]

Thank you Christian. Very helpful