CARLIER X PLANTE (ou THOMSON), Dunkerque Options

[bhowell]

I have to say... I'm disappointed, but mostly I'm grateful for all the work you and the others have done. Sometimes knowing where you're not connected helps to find where you are. I'll never stop searching! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/merci.png)

[cdubrulle]

Hi Bonnie,
I understand your disappointment, and I am sorry we could not get on the right track to find your CARLIER ancestors.
I could try to get some help at the Family History Center ( mormon center) where I do some French research, but I won't have the time to go next week . They have a limited subscription to Ancestry.com that is very helpful to find census records, immigration records, and others.
Maybe there are a few more things we can find about Arthur Emile CARLIER and his wife Ida Mae CLOSE, as well as his parents Henri Emile CARLIER and Renée Louise PLANTE that would tell us where they came from in Belgium.
In the meanwhile, look if you have any other bits of information that might give us some clue to locate them
Cheers,
Christiane
P.S. I noticed your father and my father (1905-1977) were contemporaries (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[† lcaestecker]

Bonsoir Bonnie et Christiane

Il serait bien de remettre soit par Sosa, soit par génération la liste des ascendants de Bonnie, sur dunkerque, juste avec les dates ou approximatives.
Pour recentrer les recherches, Mon américain date de la 4ème !!!

Laurent

[cdubrulle]

Il serait bien de remettre soit par Sosa, soit par génération la liste des ascendants de Bonnie, sur dunkerque, juste avec les dates ou approximatives.

Bonjour Laurent,
Le problème est que l'ascendance et les actes que nous avons trouvé à Dunkerque ne semblent pas être les ancêtres de Bonnie. Nous avons finalement établi, grace aux notes qu'elle possède, que son arrière-arrière grandpère était marié (en Belgique) avec Louise Renée PLANTE et non pas en Grande Bretagne avec Louise Catherine THOMPSON comme le pensait Stephane dans message #2.

En conséquence l'ascendance suivante est valide, mais il ne semble pas que ce soit celle de Bonnie.
Generation 1
Jean Baptiste Louis CARLIER
Marie Jacqueline Elene LEFERE
Generation 2
Louis Joseph CARLIER né 19/12/1764 à Bergues ( voir image)
x 02/01/1792 Dunkerque
Marie Jeanne Elisabeth FOCKEDEY née 25/12/1768 à Dunkerque
Generation 3
Henri Emile CARLIER né 26/12/1799 Dunkerque (voir image) + 01/09/1875 Anvers, Belgique
x 3 aout 1839 Chelsea, Middelsex, Angleterre retranscrit le 9 oct. 1839 à Dunkerque
Louise Catherine THOMPSON, fille de William George
(image dans la galerie)
Génération 4
15/05/1840 Henri Emile Arthur CARLIER
15/04/1843 William Emile George CARLIER + 1871 Dunkerque
19/06/1846 Emilie Louise CARLIER

Il y a similarité dans les prénoms et dates de naissance des 3 enfants du couple CARLIER x THOMPSON, ce qui est troublant, mais d'aprés les notes que Bonnie possède, Louise Renée PLANTE meurt en 1878 et son fils Arthur Emile qui a émigré aux U.S. vers 1865-70, écrit dans son journal qu'il est retourné en Belgique pour ses funérailles. On ne peut pas douter qu'il connait le nom de sa mère!
Bien sur, si quelqu'un trouve des éléments qui disprouvent PLANTE, il est le bienvenu.
Cordialement,
Christiane

[† lcaestecker]

Re Bonnie et Christiane

J'ai regardé dans la base belge, je n'ai pas trouvé le nom PLANTE.
C'est vrai qu'il y a beaucoup de similitude dans les prénoms.
Est ce que cela ne serait pas un Nom avec son titre.
Ex: THOMPSON Sieur de PLANTE ou l'inverse, l'angleterre est toujours sous la royauté ???
autre exemple à Dunkerque, on trouve TAVERNE de COUDECASTEELE quelque fois nommé Sieur TAVERNE et d'autres le Sieur de COUDECASTEELE et c'est la même personne.

Laurent

[bhowell]

I'm wondering if there is a list of cemeteries in Dunkirk as well as list of who is buried there? Any suggestions about that? Seems all were buried there except Arthur. Does anyone know if it was customary for one to die in Belgium and be buried in Dunkirk? I realize they are close, but just wondering...

Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

I'm wondering if there is a list of cemeteries in Dunkirk as well as list of who is buried there? Any suggestions about that? Seems all were buried there except Arthur. Does anyone know if it was customary for one to die in Belgium and be buried in Dunkirk? I realize they are close, but just wondering...
Bonnie

Bonjour à tous,
Traduction du message de Bonnie pour tous les colistiers:
Je me demande si il existe une liste de cimetieres de Dunkerque et une liste de ceux qui y sont enterrés. Est-ce que quelqu'un a une idée. Il semblerait qu'ils étaient tous enterrés là, except Arthur. Est-ce que quelqu'un sait si c'était une habitude pour quelqu'un mort en Belgique d'être enterré à Dunkerque? Je réalise que c'est proche, et je me pose la question.

Ci dessous je demande à Bonnie si elle est sure de l'orthographe "Dunkirk" parce que certains noms en Belgique peuvent ressembler Je lui demande si elle a le journal de Arthur où il écrit dans ses notes être retourné en Belgique, pour vérifier l'orthographe

To Bonnie:
I translated above your last message because people of the region might know and I don't.
Are you sure of the spelling "Dunkirk" because in Belgium some town names can be similar. Do you have the journal of Arthur where he writes in his notes going back to Belgium, to check the spelling of the town ?
Have a good Sunday and Happy Mother's Day.
Christiane

[bhowell]

Hi Christiane, Happy Mother's Day to you and all mothers on this forum!

I am sure of the spelling of Dunkirk. And I would give my right arm to see Arthur's diary! According to my uncle's notes all of the family info was given to his sister Ruth and after her death, to her daughter, Debby. My Aunt has been trying to find Debby to see if she has any of that information.

There is something I read in my uncle's notes that I don't understand.
He said our family was traced back to the Walloon section, yet never mentions a specific town. Walloon: "It is in this southern region of Belgium where the ancestry of our CARLIER family has been traced."

"A former Belgium Ambassador to the US (late 1950s) stated in a letter to me (my uncle) that the name 'CARLIER' has existed for centuries in the Tournai, Belgium and Douai, France areas."

He said the 'CARLIERS' belonged to the aristocracy of France. I don't really know what that means.

Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

I am sure of the spelling of Dunkirk.
He said our family was traced back to the Walloon section, yet never mentions a specific town. Walloon: "It is in this southern region of Belgium where the ancestry of our CARLIER family has been traced."

Hi Bonnie,
Tournai is indeed in the province of Hainaut, in the Wallon part of Belgium.
Yesterday I posted a message in a forum of Hainaut where I am a member. I asked if somebody could find a marriage CARLIER X PLANTE in 1838. So far, no answer.
It's a little bit like throwing a bottle in the ocean, but I thought it was worth trying.
Christiane

A toutes les colistières du forum
Bonnie leur souhaite une bonne Fête des Mères parce que ici aux US c'est aujour'dhui

[bhowell]

Thank you Christiane... hope you hear something back!

[cfacon]

Hi Bonnie, bonjour à tous,

Unfortunately, for the time being nothing more about the subject.

You asked a question about Dunkirk cemetery. As far as I know there was only one cemetery at that time for Dunkirk. Regarding a possible list of people buried in the cemetery you have to consider the following:
In France, before 1793 the registers were in charge of the church and they were not speaking about birth but baptism and burial instead of death, unchanged for marriage. Generally, they used to bury people in the cemetery of the church and sometimes inside the church.
Then the Sépultures (Burial) register gives the list you are looking for.

From 1793, registers are in charge of the State officers located in the City House. It is the reason why such registers are established for Birth, Marriage and Death without the idea of religious event.
By experience I know that cemeteries have their own registers to keep tracability of people buried there : who, when, where in the cemetery.

Regarding the other question related to people died in a place and buried in another place. It is not really frequent, except if you died where you were not living (for instance accident). It can be also the case when transfered to another place to be buried with your ancestors our family if space is available in the burial vault.

Back to your search, according to whar you explained, Arthur died and was buried at Toledo in 1880. Have you the corresponding death record, it might contain some interesting informations such as birth place. Have you tried to find the marriage record CARLIER x CLOSE ?

Have a nice day
Christian

[cdubrulle]

Yesterday I posted a message in a forum of Hainaut where I am a member. I asked if somebody could find a marriage CARLIER X PLANTE in 1838. So far, no answer.
It's a little bit like throwing a bottle in the ocean, but I thought it was worth trying.

Hi Bonnie, bonjour Christian,
So far there is 28 readings of my message on the Hainaut website, and no answer.

What Christian writes about death and burial records is accurate. From my own experience in Lille, cemeteries have registers of burials, but you have to go there to consult them.
Christian is right in advising you to find the death record of Arthur in Toledo and the marriage record CARLIER x CLOSE in Ohio. They both might contain useful information about Arthur's birth and something about his parents.
Have a nice day
Christiane

[bhowell]

Thank you both Christian and Christiane. I have been searching for anything I can find on Arthur... keep hitting dead ends. I'll keep trying. Thank you for the info Christian regarding the cemeteries.

And thank you Christiane for checking in the Hainaut website. Maybe someone will reply soon...
Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

Hi Bonnie,
A quick note to let you know that my message in the Hainaut forum has only 32 readings so far, and still no answer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I don't have too much hope to get something, but I will keep checking their website.

Next week I will try to get help at the Mormon Family History center to find out about the CARLIER x CLOSE marriage and Arthur's death by using their subscription to Ancestry.com.
Christiane

[bhowell]

Christiane,
Thank you so much. I have been obsessed with finding this info. I'm searching online every day! ha! I'm still confused about whether or not Arthur was born in Belgium or France. Thank you for your concern and help.
Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

I'm still confused about whether or not Arthur was born in Belgium or France.

Hi Bonnie,
Arthur marriage and death's records might give us a clue about his birth, but to find them is no sure thing.
If we find them, whether these records show that he was born in France or born in Belgium, it is not enough, we need the name of the town to be able to do a search, so it's a long shot but we just have to try.

Because of the lack of a precise town, my message in the Hainaut forum is not likely to get any answer. We can only hope for luck.
Next week, I will let you know if I found something with the help at the Mormon Family History Center
Have a good evening (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Christiane

[cdubrulle]

Hi Bonnie,
In genealogy, we have to start with a generation for which we have solid information, (parents or grandparents) and find records that establish relationships with the next one.
My message # 35 contained the link to the image of the marriage record of your grandparents Georges Emile CARLIER x Anna SPINK on March 4, 1900 in Montgomery County, OH, with the names of their parents. That's a solid source of information and yesterday at the Family History Center we tried to find more information about the couple and their parents. Unfortunately, there is very little about Arthur.

So here is what we found:
Source: Ohio Deaths records 1908-1953
Georges Emile CARLIER
b: 6 October 1875 Erie, PA
d: July 4, 1941 Dayton, OH.
Occupation: Sheet Metal worker.
Age at death: 65y 8m 28d
Father: Arthur CARLIER - birth place: PA
Mother: Ida CLOSE - birth place: OH
Spouse: Anna E. CARLIER ( we know her maiden name was SPINK)

We found a WW1 Draft Registration for Georges Emile CARLIER
b: 6 October 1875
It's very difficult to read the image but it seems to say that he was a clerk
He has brown hair and brown eyes and there is the mention that he had a bad right eye.

Source: 1880 U.S. Census in Ohio
We find the family CARLIER living in Sullivan, Ashland County, OH
The household includes:
Head of the household: Newel CLOSE and Sarah CLOSE (parents of Ida)
Ida .C. CARLIER, 29, - born in 1851 in Ohio - does light work
Georges N.E. CARLIER 4 years old, born in PA (your grandfather)
Maud CARLIER 3 years old, born in PA
No Arthur CARLIER living there. I assume he died before the census which was done in June 1880.

We also find another Arthur CARLIER in Henrietta, Lorain County, Ohio
born in 1835 in France, 45 years old
"Married" but no spouse named
Works as a servant in a cheese factory and as a servant in the household of Dudley Cole, 41 years old
Dudley Cole is married and has 3 young children. No one else in the household
It seems unlikely that a doctor would work as a servant.

We already know that George get married in 1900 with Annie (or Anna) SPINK
Now here is his sister Maud CARLIER
[u]Source: Ohio Marriage records 1789-1994[/u]
Frank T. MONKS x Maud CARLIER married 3 October 1896 in Wood County, Ohio
Parents are not named.
Here is a link to the image of the record:
http://www.gennpdc.net/lesforums/index.php...i&img=30531

Source: Ohio Deaths records 1908-1953
Maud MONKS born 20 February 1877 in Pennsylvania
died 25 April 1924 in Lima, Allen County, Ohio in the City hospital
Father: Arthur CARLIER born in France
Mother: Ida CLOSE born in Ohio
Spouse Frank T. MONKS

While searching the CARLIER name, by chance, I found:
Source: California Death Index 1940-1997 and SS index
Ruth Muriel FINK
born 21 November 1907 Ohio died 19 janvier 1988 in Fresno, CA
father: CARLIER Mother SPINK
Last residence: Coarsegold, Madera County, CA.
She must be one of your aunts

Source: Ohio Deaths records 1908-1953
Ida May CARLIER
born 1906 in Dayton, OH, died 4 November 1906 in Mad River, Montgomery, Ohio
Father: George CARLIER Mother: Anna SPINK

Source: Ohio Obituary Index
We found the obituary of one CARLIER
Arthur CARLIER, 40 years old, died February 25, 1881 in Sandusky, Ohio
It is not 1880 in Toledo, and there is no mention of his wife's name to be sure it is the same Arthur CARLIER. With so little info. it could be someone else.
We did not find any marriage record and death records of Arthur CARLIER and his wife Ida CLOSE, even using other spellings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

In the records we found about his children, George and Maud, there is no reference to Arthur being a doctor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
We also searched for a marriage CARLIER x PLANTE in Belgium. No results. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
It does not mean it did not happen, it can mean that records have not yet been indexed and put on genealogy websites. CARLIER is a very common name in France, so what we have is not enough to persue a search in France. Arthur's journal seems to be the key to finding more about him and his parents.

The volunteers at the Family History Center made a good suggestion. If Arthur CARLIER was a doctor, he must have had some assets such as land, a house, his medical equipment, maybe horses, etc... So after his death there would have been a probate in Ohio. If he died in Toledo, the probate would have been recorded in Lucas County. They tell me that probates can contain quite a bit of information about the family of the deceased, and are worth looking into for genealogy purposes. Ohio probates are on microfilms. By going to the Family History Center of your area (there are many such centers in North Carolina) the volunteers would be able to figure out on which microfilm to find it. Renting a microfilm for 2 months is $ 8.00. Spending a few hours looking at it in a Family History Center seems worth the time and expense.

Of course, if I find something else I will post it. Good read.
Christiane

[bhowell]

Christine,
I can't thank you enough for all you've done. You're amazing.

I did find two directory listings:

1) CARLIERE ARTHUR DR, physician and surgeon, office and h 18th bet Ash Lane and Wayne (I think Erie PA - an advertisement on that page was in Erie, PA. but no heading to the page copied.)

2) US City Directories 148839987 - Carlier Arthur, physician, 26 Dwight. H. do. Boston Directory

May not be the same as my Arthur.

Anyway... I will try and find the Family History Center and rent the microfilm. I'll let you know if I find a connection.

There was a human-interest story that my uncle included that I thought I would share with you. When Arthur married Ida Mae she had been married before to a Burdick. They had a child named Lettie Mae Burdick Carlier. (Arthur adopted her.) Then later they had two children of their own. George and Maude. When Lettie Mae knew she didn't have long to live, she asked her half sister, Maude if she would marry Frank Monks (her husband) and raise her two children. And Maude did just that. Married Frank and raised their two children. I think that was an extraordinary selfless thing for her to do.

Again, thank you for all your help! Hope you have a good day!
Bonnie

[cdubrulle]

I did find two directory listings:

1) CARLIERE ARTHUR DR, physician and surgeon, office and h 18th bet Ash Lane and Wayne (I think Erie PA - an advertisement on that page was in Erie, PA. but no heading to the page copied.)

2) US City Directories 148839987 - Carlier Arthur, physician, 26 Dwight. H. do. Boston Directory

May not be the same as my Arthur.

Hi Bonnie
The story of Maude is very telling.
Do you have the dates of the two directory listings you found? As you say, it might not be your Arthur. There were many Carlier in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and all the border States.
As you might have noticed in my long message, eveytime we found something about George CARLIER it was associated with the name SPINK or CLOSE, so we knew it was the right CARLIER. On the other hand, we found no record (marriage or death) about Arthur CARLIER himself, associated with CLOSE. We found him only as a "father, born in PA" in one, and "father, born in France" in another.

Family stories have a tendency to change as they are transmitted from generation to generation and details get lost, so it would be so useful if you could get Arthur's journal.

To find the Family History Center ( FHC) of your area, the easiert way is to go to this page:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp
and fill out Country, your state, your County, and click "Search"
If you fill out only "North Carolina" you will get the addresses of the 43 FHC in N. Carolina. If you add your County you can choose the FHC closest to your home. Mine is 20 miles away and I go there once a week.
When you order a microfilm, it takes about 2-3 weeks to arrive from Salt Lake City to the FHC

At the centers, the volunteers are friendly, they don't ask any question about your religion and don't try to convert you... They are there to help you with your genealogy search. The volunteer who suggested to search for the probate is a professionnal genealogist, and I think her idea is a good one. If you do find the probate, ask to make a photocopy or print of everything you find.
I hope you do find it. Depending on what you find, the volunteers might suggest something else.

I wish you good luck, and let us know what you find (or don't find)'
Christiane

[cdubrulle]

Bonjour à tous,
Ces derniers jours j’ai posté en anglais ce que j’avais trouvé pour Bonnie. Je viens poster ici une traduction résumée de l’ information. Excusez-moi pour le délai.
N’ayant pas d’information basée sur des actes ou documents, j’ai jugé utile de repartir de son grand-père et de vérifier si possible l’ information aux US menant à son arrière granpère Arthur Emile CARLIER, en espérant trouver quelque chose sur son origine en France ou en Belgique.

TRADUCTION de l’ Information trouvée (traduction non littérale)
Mon message #35 contenait le marriage du grandpère de Bonnie et un lien à l’ image:
Georges Emile CARLIER x Anna SPINK , 4 mars 1900 dans le Comté de Montgomery, Ohio.
Ce document indique que Georges Emile CARLIER est fils de Arthur CARLIER et Ida CLOSE, rien de plus sur les parents.
Je rappelle que d’aprés Bonnie, Arthur CARLIER était docteur et chirurgien, il est arrivé aux U.S. fin des années 1860, a épousé Ida Mae CLOSE ( lieu et date?) et il est mort en 1880 à Toledo, Ohio. Bonnie nous dit que Arthur écrivait chaque jour ce qu’il faisait dans un journal, mais elle ne possède pas ce journal, et semble avoir peu d’information sur le contenu et pas de dates précises.

Au centre mormon de ma région où je fais ma recherche dans les microfilms du Nord/Pas-de-calais, je peux avoir accès gratuit à certains sites généalogiques américains auquel le centre est abonné, et cette semaine j’ai fait multiples recherches pour trouver des relevés d’actes aux noms de CARLIER et CLOSE

Source: Décès en Ohio 1908-1953
- George Emile CARLIER né 6 /10/1875 in Erie, Pennsylvania mort le 4/07/1941 à Dayton, Ohio
Père: Arthur CARLIER né en Pennsylvania
Mère: Ida CLOSE , née en Ohio
Épouse: Anna CARLIER
A noter: aux US, après marriage, les épouses sont inscrites sous le nom de leur époux- nous savons que son nom de jeune fille est Anna SPINK)

- Maud MONKS, née 20/02/1877 in Pennsylvania, morte 25/04/1924 à Lima, Comté d’Allen, Ohiol
Père: Arthur CARLIER né en France
Mère: Ida CLOSE, née en Ohio
Époux: Frank T. MONKS

A noter que dans l’un, Arthur est né en Pennsylvania, dans l’autre, il est né en France! Il n’est jamais nommé Dr. CARLIER

Enregistrement pour l’armée durant 1914-18
Georges Emile CARLIER né 6/10/1875, clercq, a un mauvais oeil droit.

Recensemsent fédéral 1880 en Ohio
Une famille CARLIER habite Sullivan, Comté de Ashland, Ohio
Newel CLOSE , chef de famille
Sarah CLOSE, sa femme
Ida C. CARLIER, 29 ans, leur fille, née 1851 en Ohio, (pas de mention qu'elle est épouse ou veuve de Arthur CARLIER)
Georges N.E. CARLIER 4 ans, né en Pennsylvania
Maud CARLIER, 3 ans, née en Pennsylvania
Pas de Arthur CARLIER, le mari de Ida et père des enfants.
D’aprés Bonnie, il serait mort en 1880, donc sans doute avant le recensement qui a eu lieu en juin.

Dans le même recensement de 1880 en Ohio
un Arthur CARLIER, habite à Henrietta, Comté de Lorain, Ohio, avec la famille COLE
Dudley COLE est chef de famille, 41 ans, il est fermier
Dudley COLE a une épouse et 3 jeunes enfants.
Nommé en dernier: Arthur CARLIER, né en 1835 en France, 45 ans. Pas d’épouse
Il est servant dans une fabrique de fromage et servant dans la famille de Dudley COLE
Il semble peu probable qu’un docteur travaille comme servant dans une famille pour gagner de l’ argent.

A noter: Dans les recensements aux US, si la personne est née hors des Etats-Unis, seul le pays d’origine est nommé, pas la ville.

Je n’ai pas trouvé le décès de Arthur CARLIER.
Cependant dans : Index de notices nécrologiques de Ohio, j’ai trouvé
Arthur CARLIER, 40 ans, mort 25/02/1881 à Sandusky, Ohio
Ce n’est pas 1880 à Toledo comme Bonnie nous a dit, et il n’y a pas mention de l’ épouse qui confirmerait que c’est le même Arthur CARLIER

Je n’ai pas non plus trouvé trace de Arthur CARLIER dans le recensement fédéral de 1870
Je n’ai trouvé aucune trace du marriage Arthur CARLIER x Ida CLOSE et aucune trace du décès de Ida CLOSE, morte en 1882 à 33 ans, d’aprés Bonnie. Dans aucun relevé il est fait mention qu’il est docteur. Il n’est jamais nommé Dr. Arthur CARLIER.

J’ai aussi cherché le marriage CARLIER x PLANTE vers 1838 (parents de Arthur) et décès de Louise PLANTE en 1878 en Belgique, d’aprés Bonnie, mais je n’ai trouvé aucune réponse dans les sites.

Une généalogiste professionnelle au centre mormon a fait la suggestion de chercher l’enregistrement du testament de Arthur CLOSE. Si Arthur était docteur et chirurgien, il avait surement des possessions: une maison, du terrain, ses instruments, et peut être un ou deux chevaux pour se déplacer chez ses malades. Les testaments ont été microfilmés, et j’ai suggéré à Bonnie de faire cette recherche. Je lui ai donné le URL pour trouver le centre mormon proche de son domicile où elle peut louer le microfilm.
( cet URL est valide aussi pour les centres en France) Un testament peut donner beaucoup d’information sur le décédé et ses héritiers.

Il me semble un peu étrange que Arthur ayant écrit son journal, la date précise et lieu de son marriage ne soit pas connu. Bonnie a des notes sur ce que lui a passé son oncle et des fragments d’ information récoltés sur internet, mais ne semble pas avoir d’actes.
J’ai écrit:
“Ne pas trouver des relevés ne veut pas dire que l’information est mauvaise, il est possible que certains relevés et indexes ne soient pas encore faits ou postés sur internet. Le nom CARLIER est commun en France et ce que nous avons n’est pas suffisant pour poursuivre des recherches en France. Le journal de Arthur semble la clé pour trouver les origines de Arthur et de ses parents.”
et dans le message suivant: “Les histoires de famille ont tendance à changer lorsqu’elles sont transmises de génération en génération et les détails se perdent, aussi serait –il utile d’obtenir le journal de Arthur."

Dans son dernier message, Bonnie dit avoir trouvé 2 Arthur CARLIER, docteurs, dans des annuaires en Ohio et Boston, Massachussets, mais elle ne donne pas les dates. Interessant mais pas une preuve que ce soit le sien.

Ouf! C’est fini pour aujourd’ hui!
Amicalement,
Christiane